allie beth stuckey

David French Makes Allie Beth Stuckey’s Case Regarding ‘Toxic Empathy’

It’s a tried-and-true tactic of detective work and journalism to let your interviewee talk – the more they say, the more they tend to reveal, especially what they might otherwise prefer to conceal.

That’s what came to mind after watching popular Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey’s recent interview with New York Times columnist and evangelical gadfly David French.

Fidgeting nervously in his chair opposite Stuckey, the former conservative writer attempted to address a variety of issues ranging from his decision to refer to a sexually confused man as a “she,” his objection to the term “toxic empathy,” and his reluctance to call out the radical theology from those on the left as heretical.

For the last few years, David French has made his living critiquing culture, specifically conservatives, and nobody more so than President Donald Trump. He is clearly not a fan. In his role at the Times, French considers himself something of the movement’s conscience, and seems regularly more bothered by the actions of those on the right than the left.

His sit down with Allie Beth Stuckey on her podcast, “Relatable,” was civil, polite, and respectful from beginning to end. But maybe the most ironic aspect of the conversation, though, centered around their debate over “toxic empathy” – the name of Stuckey’s bestselling book, and a topic that clearly bothers David French.

According to Stuckey, “toxic empathy” is empathy that overrides truth or moral judgment and “encourages the affirmation of lies, sin, or destructive politics.” Empathy becomes harmful when it leads to someone affirming something that is harmful and wrong – especially sexual confusion.

Pressing David French on why he used the preferred pronoun “she” to describe a “he” he replied, “I don’t see the value in saying something that I know and they know is going to be hurtful to them. It’s just normal, complete politeness and manners.”

In other words – he was being toxically empathetic.

Southern Seminary’s Andrew Walker pointed this out in the days following the interview. 

“She (Stuckey) indexes her understanding of emotion and empathy on a biblical axis, whereas French elevates emotion and empathy to a disproportionate degree. The consequence is to unmoor emotion from truth. There’s simply a difference in rhetorical strategy: Stuckey focuses more on logos; French on pathos. 

“Along those lines, another reason I think Allie Beth had the stronger hand is that she refuses to play the game of pitting love against truth (1 Cor. 13:6; Eph. 4:15). She’s no less interested in kindness or empathy, but properly indexed by Scripture. French’s focus on catering to emotional equilibrium (and thus hewing to progressive niceties) requires him to blur biblical categories. Biblical ethics requires both logos and pathos, but our loves must be ordered and governed with a proper foundation. And notably, French’s empathy tends in one direction, toward those to his left. In short, Allie Beth focused on objectivity, reason, and right and wrong as the grounds of what constitutes love and kindness, whereas French’s instinct is to defer to emotion and aesthetics.”

When Allie Beth Stuckey pushed back on French for calling out her use of the term, the New York Times opinion writer acknowledged her definitions in the book made sense, but that “I have seen you online, when people talk about the plight of others, you bring up toxic empathy.”

Stuckey asked French for an example. He couldn’t provide one.

In another spirited exchange, Stuckey asked French about his provocative claims that abortions in America have gone up under President Donald Trump. Never mind that reporting on such things has always been unreliable, especially in states like California, but Allie Beth asked, “What did he (Pres. Trump) do that caused abortions to rise?”

French suggested President Trump has fanned “libertinism” – “an unrestrained pursuit of pleasure, self-indulgence, and a total disregard for conventional social, moral, or religious constraints.”  But then Stuckey asked the million-dollar question: 

“Do we have data that shows us that it’s more people on the right that were getting abortions under Donald Trump?”

“We don’t have that data,” French admitted.

Allie Beth Stuckey went into her debate with David French well prepared. She also modeled well how to engage with those who can be selective when critiquing culture, especially those challenging socially conservative thoughts and actions. 

If The New York Times was truly interested in providing their readers with a thoughtful and fair perspective from a biblically based social conservative point-of-view, they would be contracting with Allie Beth Stuckey to write a weekly column in the Old Grey Lady. 

Hillary Clinton and Allie Beth Stuckey: A War of Worldviews

It’s not too often that you see former First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey in the same story — but that’s exactly what happened last week.

Writing in the Atlantic, Mrs. Clinton called out Mrs. Stuckey for her use of the term “toxic empathy” — which is also the name of the social conservative’s bestselling book. In the context of the magazine article, though, the former Secretary of State was incredulous that a Christian could string those two words together.

“Toxic empathy!” Clinton wrote. “What an oxymoron. I don’t know if the phrase reflects moral blindness or moral bankruptcy, but either way it’s appalling.”

Mrs. Clinton’s comments certainly reflect her worldview. 

Allie Beth Stuckey is neither morally blind nor bankrupt. In fact, she is one of the leading Christian lights of the social conservative movement — willing to wade into controversial topics and unafraid to say what so many others seem reluctant to declare.

According to Allie Beth, “Empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to affirm sin, validate lies or support destructive policies.”

In her Atlantic piece, Mrs. Clinton suggested “that Christians like me — and people of faith more generally — have a responsibility to stand up to the extremists who use religion to divide our society and undermine our democracy.”

It takes a certain degree of confusion and distortion to pack so many falsehoods into a single sentence. 

Mrs. Clinton goes on to deride Allie Beth Stuckey as the “Commissar of MAGA morality.” It’s curious how quickly critics of social conservative policy resort to name-calling, especially likening evangelical Christians to members of the Soviet Union’s Communist Party. 

It’s unlikely that Mrs. Clinton recognizes the irony of her criticism of Allie Beth, but it’s instructive and illustrative of the gaping ideological cultural divide we’re all navigating as Christian believers in the public square.

In short, she’s making Allie Beth Stuckey’s point.

Toxic empathy isn’t an oxymoron but an apt description of taking a strength to an extreme, and often blindly going along to get along. It discourages thoughtful discernment and instead relies on pure emotion.

In a biblical context, “empathy” is active compassion and a willingness to bear another’s burden — it’s not the suspension of the law or the absence of critical thinking. It’s to be tenderhearted but also not be someone with tunnel vision. Wise Christians understand and appreciate that decisions have consequences. To love someone is to want what God believes is best for them — not what they necessarily believe or want.

True empathy is protecting an innocent pre-born baby by encouraging and showing a mother there are ways to navigate a difficult situation. Toxic empathy is encouraging that same women to unburden herself by aborting the baby. Genuine empathy is protecting our borders to protect the innocent people in America from violent criminals trying to break into the country. Toxic empathy is throwing open the border and assuming and taking comfort in the belief most of the people coming in mean no harm.

Allie Beth Stuckey’s Christian worldview rightly appreciates that sinful men and women of faith are susceptible to distorting even good things.

“If you feel so deeply what someone else feels, you can forget that there are other people involved in this moral equation,” she told Major Garrett this past week. “You can even be blinded to objective reality and morality.”

For years, seasoned Christian social conservatives have been praying and calling for a new generation of believers to rise, defend and proclaim the Good News of Jesus Christ to a sleepy and rebellious culture. Allie Beth Stuckey is an answer to those many prayers.